Here’s the storified summary of the #EcomChat session looking at Ecommerce Platforms.
The 3 conversation topic starters were:
[View the story “Ecommerce Platforms in 2013” on Storify] Ecommerce Platforms in 2013 Here’s the summary of an #EcomChat session looking at Ecommerce Platforms. Storified by dan barker· Sun, Mar 03 2013 23:31:41 So let’s kick off at the beginning, a sensible option. #EcomChat Q1) Who are the serious platform contenders?James Gurd @JamesGurd anyone not Magento. #ecomchatAndrew McGarry @beyondcontent interesting, quick answer: Bad experience? #ecomchatdan barker @JamesGurd #EcomChat @BigCommerce is a seriously big player here. I personally love working on this platfrom.Ashley Balstad @JamesGurd Shopify, Magento, OScommerce to name a few #EcomchatHyderali Shaikh #EcomChat A1) And note this doesn’t have to be proprietary, it can be a company that builds solutions using 3rd party techJames Gurd @hyderali_ @JamesGurd #EcomChat #Shopify is a big player as well. I get a lot of leads that are moving from them to #BigCommerce.Ashley Balstad A1) @Magento & @Opencart #ecomchata n d r e w @danbarker @beyondcontent Yep, we had a bad experience with MartJack. URLs were not SEO friendly. #EcomchatHyderali Shaikh #EcomChat platforms mentioned so far: Shopify, Magento, OSCommerce, BigCommerce. (all of these are low/low-mid tier? anyone disagree?)dan barker @danbarker #EcomChat what ‘tier’ do you mean? How much product level, storage size, support level?Ashley Balstad @AshleyBalstad as in suitable for a startup ecommerce shop, as opposed to one where there is a higher price/barrier to using. #ecomchatdan barker @danbarker yes agree they are typically for SME though some big brands do extend off of platforms like Magento e.g. Dreams #EcomChatJames Gurd @JamesGurd A1 #ecomchat I think the options differ massively dependant upon requirements, current systems (ERP, CRM etc) & size of businessMike Upton @hyderali_ @danbarker @beyondcontent #EcomChat – Poor URL structure is the worst! I’ve had a few tough challenages with that before.Ashley Balstad #EcomChat How would everyone define ‘enterprise level’? Is it a £ rev threshold? or size of platform? Or visits? Or other?James Gurd Magento hands down #EcomChatMarshall @Magique83 as most answers have been around smaller size, what would you say at the other end? #ecomchatdan barker I’m in #ecomchat. I’m a big fan of OpenCart, slightly less a fan of Magento.Joshua Geake @ashleybalstad I think that’s the most important q – how to define tiers. Typically it comes down to things like product cat size #EcomChatJames Gurd @geake @andrewbaker72 excellent. What are the cons of Magento vs OpenCart? #ecomchatdan barker Only real downside of magento is performance, a lot of time and hardware to make it fly #EcomChatMarshall Magento-big 3rd party tools&support but it’s a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Big learning curve too. Slow architecture. #ecomchat 1/2Joshua Geake @danbarker @geake complexity, speed… cc @RossKnight I’m sure has a view if he wasn’t tied up… #ecomchata n d r e w @DanielJTruman @JamesGurd Cat size is huge. Capacity of visits is server, but transaction and cat capacity is platform #ecomchatDaniel Truman @danbarker @JamesGurd #ecomchat At the top end you have IBM Websphere, ATG, Hybris & DemandwareMike Upton @AshleyBalstad Infact, when we addressed the issue…they told "It is impossible to change" #EcomchatHyderali Shaikh @JamesGurd #EcomChat – #Bigcommece does have unlimited product plans. I haven’t had a client with more than 50k products to see it work.Ashley Balstad @marshalltay Hi – what makes you say Magento? What specifically do you think makes it a good ecommerce platform? #EcomChatJames Gurd OpenCart is fast out of the box with ok support/tools. Great startup tool but you’ll want to know your php/db etc #ecomchat 2/2Joshua Geake #EcomChat Platforms that people think are worthy so far: Shopify, Bigcommerce, OpenCart, Magento, Hybris, Websphere, Demandware, ATG.dan barker #DrupalCommerce, used by Royal Mail, Cartier and McDonalds, over 23,000 live sites and grows at ~1000 per month. #ecomchatJohn Kennedy @danbarker: #EcomChat Platforms that ppl think r worthy so far: Shopify, Bigcommerce, OpenCart, Magento, Hybris, Websphere, Demandware, ATG.Hyderali Shaikh Personally I love OpenCart for its MVC simplicity. Makes it dead easy to customise and the extensions can be great&v.cheap #ecomchatJoshua Geake #ecomchat I’d also suggest that cost is a big differentiator for enterprise. If you’re not looking to spend £200k+ then not enterpriseMike Upton @jamesgurd So which platforms would you recommend to small businesses starting out on ecommerce journey? #EcomChatJames Gurd I once started something with Shopify but the sales team sold the product on a lie from step 1. That site became Magento. #ecomchatJoshua Geake #EcomChat quick to configure, rich out the box features, good performance, low support costs – seems there is a split on Magento?James Gurd @geake I really do like OpenCart VQMOD but I am not the OpenCart specialist here #ecomchatRoss Knight @JamesGurd I’ll go with Shopify. I heard it makes lot of sense for small business to start with it first. #EcomchatHyderali Shaikh @JamesGurd #ecomchat Shopify and OScommerce are both good starting options although not without their downfallsMike Upton A few more: DrupalCommerce (via @commercejohn), Intershop (via @bbstripes) & I still see Venda come up a little bit. #EcomChatdan barker @JamesGurd #ecomchat magento go 😉 all SaaS and links with eBay, Google et al and is pretty much ready to go out of boxPeter Magento is far more scalable than OpenCart but it comes with a cost. Magento is only as good as its deployment #ecomchatRoss Knight @rossknight Hi Ross – why, in your experience, is Magento much more scalable than OpenCart? #EcomChatJames Gurd @JamesGurd Both more configurable for business owners and potential integrations although I have seen OpenCart with 100k skus #ecomchatRoss Knight #ecomchat Magento is a great platform but it needs an experienced development team and a decent dedicated server to make the most of itMike Upton #EcomChat Q- What #shoppingcarts to y’all like best for ease of #marketing and #seo purposes?Ashley Balstad @JamesGurd big time OpenCart. Try it, nothing to lose. #ecomchatJoshua Geake For a startup Ecommerce site, consensus around OpenCart or Magento in the UK, with Shopify/BigCommerce suggested elsewhere. #ecomchatdan barker @danbarker @commercejohn @bbstripes #ecomchat drupal is becoming a better offering, as 8 based on #symfonyPeter #ecomchat I’d suggest that Magento now sits in the medium size business range but can be used by smaller companies with the right team.Mike Upton @mdegeus Thanks for joining in. What makes Drupal so popular vs. platforms like Magento/Open car? #EcomChatJames Gurd @Magique83 #ecomchat yes for enterprise, not so much community edition..Peter @Magique83 #ecomchat magento enterprise deals with medium to large, imhoPeter @Magique83 From what I see, it almost spans the full range. As @gingerwarriorx says ‘go’ is great for very small stuff. #ecomchatdan barker @geake And what would you suggest to a small business owner is a realistic initial project cost to get a basic site up + running? #EcomChatJames Gurd If anyone has any #Ecomchat questions specific to Shopify, I’m happy to try and answer them.Mark Macdonald @gingerwarriorx So what’s the advantage of Symfony – indulge the non-techs amongst us if you will #EcomChatJames Gurd @JamesGurd well a £1m/1000xSKU OpenCart site can be hosted for avg. £150 per month. Design and build ~£5k-8k. #ecomchatJoshua Geake Those small platforms are also a great if you want to dip the toe in the market and test your products in a cost-effective manner #ecomchatAhmed ‘Aki’ Khalifa @ahmed_khalifa very good point. I know of people who do that for international too. Main site on one platform, test others abroad. #ecomchatdan barker @danbarker It does span the range and Go is a better option for startups. Magento’s complexity has stumped big companies though #ecomchatMike Upton @rossknight And does Opencart creak when you get above a certain product catalogue size? #EcomChatJames Gurd @JamesGurd Everything creaks above a certain size if infrastructure isn’t correct… ur only as strong as weakest component 😉 #ecomchatRoss Knight .@JamesGurd @mdegeus One reason: data flexibility. One client has 22,000 skus all in a faceted search, no coding required. #ecomchatJohn Kennedy @JamesGurd #ecomchat is a much lighter framework for development, esp Vs zend. It means drupal becomes better app when used. Also see syliusPeter #ecomchat Harvey Nichols is one big brand who had massive problems with their Magento buildMike Upton @Magique83 I remember that. I believe the dev house vanished from the uk a little while later iirc. #ecomchatdan barker .@welfordmedia are OpenCart specialists: eBay/Amazon APIs very well integrated & supported. That said, OpenCart does have limits #ecomchatJoshua Geake @Magique83 #ecomchat is that magento or the HN devs?Peter For an Ecom startup I’d look at low investment products that with easy implementation and exit strategies. #ecomchatDaniel Truman #ecomchat a lot of dev houses think if they can code, they can use a store e.g. .Php / magento @JamesGurd @Magique83 not usually the casePeter .@RossKnight @JamesGurd enter PaaS. https://commerceguys.com/product/commerce-platform #ecomchatJohn Kennedy @DanielJTruman #EcomChat for many start ups, the platform must be easy to use so that they don’t have to depend on a developer.Ashley Balstad #EcomChat’s drifted fairly quickly toward the ‘why/why not Magento’ question. Let’s move on to Q2 then:dan barker #EcomChat Q2: If you’re looking to replatform/launch a new site, should you *always* now consider Magento as an option? (if not, why not?)dan barker @gingerwarriorx @magique83 and why is that? down to complex integration issues? or customisation that kills the cost? #ecomchatJames Gurd @GingerWarriorX I don’t know the full story but I think it was down to the fact the agency that coded it weren’t fully prepared #ecomchatMike Upton RT @danbarker: #EcomChat Q2: If you’re looking to replatform/launch a new site, should you *always* now consider Magento as an option?James Gurd @danbarker #EcomChat Q2 answer: I mostly don’t consider #Magento because it has little reputation her in #Texas. #Reputation is important.Ashley Balstad @AshleyBalstad oh that’s really interesting. You never hear of it? #ecomchatdan barker "@DanielJTruman #EcomChat for many start ups, the platform must be easy to use so that they don’t have to depend on a developer.Hyderali Shaikh I suppose the obvious problem is cost, so for those on low-budget, it might be risky investment. But then again, business is risky #ecomchatAhmed ‘Aki’ Khalifa Q2 Consider it, modules/support etc make it great. It’s just overkill 99% of the time for selling simple boxed products. Slow. #ecomchatJoshua Geake Q2A: If your project is aiming for content driven commerce then #magento hobbled by its lack of CMS features #ecomchatJohn Kennedy @danbarker There is no platform that’s perfect for every use case. So determine what you need, then decide which to consider. #ecomchatMichel Hendriks @CommerceJohn #EcomChat from a #marketing stand point, #ContentMarketing is huge for #Ecommerce!Ashley Balstad @ahmed_khalifa Indeed, big risk is in not clearly defining goals/need and business requirements – can’t find a platform without! #ecomchatJames Gurd #ecomchat – when thinking about a commerce platform, think about your content strategy as well. Do you have to tack on an extra CMS?robertDouglass @JamesGurd absolutely agree. The power of taking in house at a later date is huge. Also plenty of support from the community #ecomchatMike Upton RT @commercejohn: A2: If project aiming for content driven commerce then #magento hobbled by lack of CMS #ecomchat Important distinctionJames Gurd RT @bbstripes: There is no platform that’s perfect for every use. So determine what you need, then decide which to consider. #ecomchat 100%James Gurd #EcomChat Recommendations for an #Ecommerce platform to develop a #restaurant’s #website? Must be capable of online ordering.Antony Jones @JamesGurd @commercejohn We combine Magento with SilverStripe to add more versatility to content management #EcomChatPaul Rogers @bbstripes I definitely with your point. The hard part is finding out which is your most ideal platform #ecomchatAhmed ‘Aki’ Khalifa @robertdouglass Yes which comes back to needs – define requirements, them match platforms as @bbstripes tweeted #ecomchatJames Gurd @JonesRightNow There are many many solutions. Could be as simple as WordPress with a plugin such as https://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/zuppler-online-ordering/ #ecomchatMichel Hendriks @JonesRightNow #EcomChat #BigCommerce does work for online ordering very well. I feel like a BC #Cheerleader right now, lol.Ashley Balstad @JonesRightNow #EcomChat – here’s a Drupal Commerce recipe for a pizza ordering shop. https://goo.gl/vLwfF Customisable attributes a must.robertDouglass @paulnrogers @JamesGurd @CommerceJohn @marshalltay that makes sense. I know people do really well with magento+wordpress. #ecomchatdan barker @ahmed_khalifa Definitely. For low end platforms you can try it out, for high end platforms you’ll have to find/talk to some users #ecomchatMichel Hendriks @jonesrightnow That really depends on what features/functionality you need – key comment on this thread tonight I think. #ecomchatJames Gurd @JamesGurd Shopify is designed for small to medium sized companies, but some of our merchants do millions in sales each month. #ecomchatMark Macdonald @danbarker Has anyone mentioned going with a hybrid yet? We use SilverStripe with Magento and I know others that use Drupal #EcomChatPaul Rogers @danbarker Wow, that’s from small to huge! 🙂 I love projects such as Shopify and BigCommerce. Can’t wait to start a shop on BC #ecomchatMichel Hendriks @paulnrogers I’ve used Silverstripe before and it’s very easy to use. But will that make #magento "heavier" to use for everybody? #ecomchatAhmed ‘Aki’ Khalifa @ashleybalstad Ashley – what do you think makes BC a ‘good’ platform from an ecommerce teams’ perspective? #ecomchatJames Gurd @JamesGurd #EcomChat #BigCommerce is just so easy to use and navigate. Our developers love how easy it is to customize.Ashley Balstad .@paulnrogers @JamesGurd People also tack Magento on to #drupal, but it means maintaining an integration and managing updates #ecomchatJohn Kennedy @bbstripes @JonesRightNow (& if going for that, wordpress have a range of restaurant themes! https://en.wordpress.com/restaurants/ ) #ecomchatdan barker There’s also the issue of security, especially where CMS is concerned. #EcomChatAndrew McGarry Coming from IBMWebsphere, I found #Drupal to be a super-easy admin for non-developers. #DrupalCommerce: is a great solution. #ecomchatDrupalDiva @danbarker @JonesRightNow How can you not love WordPress! 😛 #ecomchatMichel Hendriks @paulnrogers @danbarker not specifically but I think it’s sensible to find the best fit solution and consider hybrid if it works #ecomchatJames Gurd @paulnrogers I like that approach a lot. Core competencies of the 2 platforms, etc. #ecomchatdan barker @danbarker @bbstripes #EcomChat The theme would be custom, just the functionality needed. If a lightweight WP plugin can do the job, great!Antony Jones @beyondcontent Very true. I have known people switch away from platforms purely because of that. #ecomchatdan barker @danbarker @commercejohn @bbstripes I’ll throw actinic into the mix (I’m not a fan). I know a few retailers who have gone with it. #ecomchatPaul Rogers @jamesgurd A bit low-level, but things like Symfony help keep platform code future-friendly and fast. Magento is neither. #EcomChatDouglas Greenshields @danbarker @paulnrogers I’ve seen a few retail Clients add WP blog to commerce site and it works well. #ecomchatJames Gurd @danbarker #EcomChat Consider Magento a high-tier option only. "Go" tends to be very limited and poor support.rawb station .@danbarker @paulnrogers For a medium size integrator It means maintaining two teams of developers #ecomchatJohn Kennedy @danbarker Btw, if I’m not mistaken, GSI Commerce seems to use Intershop these days. If it’s good enough for them.. #ecomchatMichel Hendriks @JamesGurd #EcomChat I also feel like possiblities are endless on BC. I have very few road blocks when I am working on it.Ashley Balstad @danbarker #EcomChat "Ent" very powerful but in no way is turn-key. Very server/manpower hungry to get to acceptable level.rawb station @JamesGurd @danbarker A lot depends on requirements I think, we only do it on sites that are very content driven. #EcomChatPaul Rogers @AshleyBalstad all the reviews I read about BC seem to be very positive. I may consider it in the future #ecomchatAhmed ‘Aki’ Khalifa @JamesGurd #EcomChat BC is also very friendly on the wallet.Ashley Balstad @CommerceJohn @danbarker That is true #EcomChatPaul Rogers @Magique83 @JamesGurd #ecomchat I think that is true of any product for any business…!Peter @JamesGurd @danbarker Yep, I have too. I’ve also seen some fairly good WP ecommerce sites 🙂 #EcomChatPaul Rogers @paulnrogers @CommerceJohn I think that’s why wordpress so popular. Lots choose Magento for large pool of devs. Similar with WP. #ecomchatdan barker @elrizzy @danbarker #ecomchat go is for smaller businesses / startup not anything bigger, that is where CE steps in..Peter As a minor tangent – how often do people come across ‘self-built’ ecommerce sites now? #ecomchatdan barker #ecomchat I’d like to add that many agencies have good own built ecom platforms. Snow Valley, Colony Commerce & Lost Ferret spring to mindMike Upton FYI I’ve always found the Magento/OpenCart devs that sell ~$20 modules to be massively helpful with support #ecomchatJoshua Geake @danbarker For all shops we run, including a European project for HP, we still use our own platform. Will switch most to Intershop #ecomchatMichel Hendriks @danbarker more often than I’d like over the years :-S #ecomchat got one ATM, tho fortunately the dev is responsive to most thingsPete Handley @danbarker I remember seeing one a while ago that deducted stk @cart level and wouldn’t allow multiple line quantities. #nightmare #ecomchatJoshua Geake Wowsers, time is flying! Let’s kick on to Q3 of #ecomchat: When should companies consider a custom build vs using existing platform?James Gurd @Magique83 along those lines – Paraspar have loads of very happy customers. Think thereis is built on ms commerce server. #ecomchatdan barker @danbarker #ecomchat I could write a book on the pros and cons of an in house system! I’m not even sure where to start in 140 charsMike Upton "Snow Valley, Colony Commerce & Lost Ferret" – sound more like indie bands! :p #EcomchatAndrew McGarry #EcomChat this was in thread: Review/Compare, BigCommerce,Volusion,Shopify Shopping Cart Software Free Trials!https://crybabynews.com/big-commerce-web-hosting-reviews-best-online-stores-specials-2013/ …Ashley Balstad @hernanibf @robertDouglass you shouldn’t require an extra CMS as standard, in rare edge cases maybe #ecomchatPeter @Magique83 aren’t Snow Valley moving to Fry now? #ecomchatDan Coleman @danbarker @magique83 Yes Paraspar good rep for being reliable, often lose out to the more ‘dynamic’ agencies #ecomchatJames Gurd @Magique83 agreed. Easier to answer how often it crops up now rather than the pro/con I think. 😉 #ecomchatdan barker @danbarker yes Paraspar too. They manage the Foot Asylum website if I remember correctly #ecomchatMike Upton @AshleyBalstad agreed. Usability and functionality are huge criteria in startup ecom. #EcomChatDaniel Truman @DanielMColeman very possible. Haven’t checked up on them in a while #ecomchatMike Upton @JamesGurd if companies are experiencing growing number of traffic/orders, custom-built might be better in the long-term #ecomchatAhmed ‘Aki’ Khalifa Gah! Missed most of #ecomchat this week and it is pretty much ‘my subject’. Very very interested to go through what was said later…Nick Walker @JamesGurd #EcomChat this really depends on how many custom features their #onlinestore will need.Ashley Balstad @JamesGurd #ecomchat in 90% of cases any platform should work.. a line as you go up to multinationals w global sites, but not found it yet..Peter @JamesGurd When they have money to burn. Start from a flexible platform and adjust instead of getting locked into custom. #ecomchatDrupalDiva @JamesGurd if your SEO channel is worth a lot of money, custom build can protect that out of the box. #ecomchatAndrew McGarry A3) custom built good for "disruptive" business models and can be more of a VC magnet 😉 ##ecomchatDan Coleman #ecomchat A3 a custom build should always be considered for an established business with non standard tech behind itMike Upton @walkerama what’s your site on, Nick? & what would you do if restarting today? #ecomchatdan barker @Magique83 Thats true, lots are built out of frustration from other platforms #EcomChatPaul Rogers @JamesGurd cost, capacity, transactions, products, uniqueness of products, user experience. Multiple issues to consider #EcomChatDaniel Truman @elrizzy @danbarker @commercejohn Lots of devs think it’s like WP and end up getting lost #EcomChatPaul Rogers @DanielMColeman v good point. & ‘less replicable’. #ecomchatdan barker @DanielJTruman these issues (and more) are enough to give people a headache on what platforms to choose #ecomchatAhmed ‘Aki’ Khalifa @ahmed_khalifa @JamesGurd I think high-traffic is actually a better reason to go with a tried/tested/scalable platform #ecomchatJohn Kennedy @Magique83 #ecomchat I say only custom if *absolutly* required, for most Ecom needs an OS platform + customisation is more than adequate..Peter @GingerWarriorX for perfect continuity of URLs/link architecture/etc perhaps? #ecomchat @beyondcontent @JamesGurddan barker #ecomchat Getting a dev team to ‘gel’ can be tricky with custom builds due to lack of consistency you get with an open source platformMike Upton @Magique83 Agreed #ecomchatJohn Kennedy On the custom question, summary seems to be only consider if either A) A new site, B) Big dealbreaker in all platform options. #ecomchatdan barker True dat. Not massive dev tho RT @paulnrogers: @elrizzy @danbarker @commercejohn think it’s like WP and end up getting lost #EcomChatPeter @danbarker #EcomChat this is great summary to this question.Ashley Balstad @CommerceJohn I see your point. But do you think smaller platforms are scalable when up against open source ecommerce platforms? #ecomchatAhmed ‘Aki’ Khalifa @ahmed_khalifa which ones? #ecomchatJohn Kennedy @CommerceJohn the likes of shopify, flyingcart, bigcommerce, etc. #ecomchatAhmed ‘Aki’ Khalifa @ahmed_khalifa @CommerceJohn #EcomChat it depends on the platform. I think that BC is very scalable for growing businesses.Ashley Balstad @danbarker Totally custom build based on my own business’s ecommerce framework. Unique situation which meant it was obvious choice #ecomchatNick Walker And the bell tolls for another week of #ecomchat, can’t believe how quick it has gone this weekJames Gurd Thanks to all new & loyal #EcomChat people this week. The hour is up.dan barker @danbarker @beyondcontent @JamesGurd perhaps… But we work with top SEOs too and they not ever said platform is an issue.. #ecomchatPeter As ever, we’ll summarise & post to https://ecomchat.org, and will be back again next Monday. V good this week- v useful- thanks! #EcomChatdan barker @JamesGurd @danbarker great topic and lots of different opinions, shows what a minefield it is! Thanks for hosting #ecomchatMike Upton @ahmed_khalifa shopify etc are great for people who want to run out of hours or as a hobby, but true customisation is unfeasible. #ecomchatJohn Kennedy @danbarker …if starting again I’d reconsider off-the-shelf (eg Magento) but custom build good if you have resources & systems #ecomchatNick Walker I agree with that point #ecomchat RT @CommerceJohn: shopify etc are great for people who want to run out of hours or as a hobby #ecomchatAhmed ‘Aki’ Khalifa @walkerama @danbarker yes, I disagree for custom new build, unless there is an absolute requirement for it.. #ecomchatPeter @danbarker Having said that, off-the-shelf is best for most… tbh this is a long conversation – too many pros & cons to list!! #ecomchatNick Walker Q2A: If your project is aiming for content driven commerce then #magento hobbled by its lack of CMS features #ecomchat > disagree with this!Peter Belated A2) re: Mage – don’t consider the platform so much as the integrator – some a poor match for SMEs with ltd internal skills #ecomchatDan Coleman Missed #Ecomchat yest, but FWIW, when evaluating Magento no one could give me example of Ecom site running Magento at scale (£5m+ turnover)Chris Dalrymple @chrisdalrymple The North Face, Dreams, Kookai, https://Made.com, Bench, Kurt Geiger – All Magento and likely over £5mil #ecomchatMike Upton @JamesGurd Damn, totally missed #EcomChat! I say small – Opencart, mid – Magento, large – SitecoreJamie
Storified by dan barker· Sun, Mar 03 2013 23:31:41
Thanks to everyone. Do join us on Monday for the next session.
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