SEO And The Art of Link Building
Here is the summary of the session on “SEO And The Art of Link Building”. There was plenty of fantastic input from SEO practitioners, Ecommerce Directors, Managers, Agency & in-house people.
As ever, there were 3 conversation starter questions, and anyone was welcome to chip in live on Twitter using the hashtag.
The 3 questions were:
- Can you still do link building for SEO?
- What are sensible techniques?
- How should we respond to Google’s latest thoughts on guest blogging?
The full summary is below (thanks to @JackSaville1):
Q1 – Can you still do link building for SEO?
@DClutt: Links need to be attracted not built using content campaigns that are relevant to your goals/ customer base
- @JamesGurd : Not sure every link needs content campaign, is it scalable? Why can’t simple links be used if placed sensibly? #EcomCHat
- @JamesGurd : For me different types of link and they all work together as part of the bigger plan
- @DClutt : Then they’re artificial and against guidelines.
- @DClutt : Product reviews with top tier bloggers help ecom SEO and link distribution
- @JamesGurd : I disagree – artificial is a link placed on page without justification – a web owner putting a useful link for their users
- @JamesGurd : isn’t artificial. Why do you need CM plan to be relevant? There are info links that just need a simple link in context
- @DClutt : Yeh I agree with in context links when relevant
- @pferron : but that is risky it’s a form of paid linking so no follow is required thus seo wise little benefit
- @dmandalia : Need to be careful. lots of ecom product review sites out there with spammy link portfolios of their own that you inherit
- @DClutt : Yeh, that’s why I mentioned top tier. You can spot the blogs that spam the product reviews.
- @2PointNorth : But danger of being seen as paid link? Not much diff from guest post and potentially manipulative if overdone.
- @JamesGurd : I think it’s semantics really – think we’re saying the same thing essentially
- @pferron : I agree it’s a form of paid link request #ecomchat so high risk
- @DClutt : Agreed.
- @DClutt :What’s your thoughts on growing page authority for category pages?
@mattbeks : Link Building isn’t dead at all, as long as you’re not building links to sites that have a bad UX, with very little interaction!
- @JamesGurd : For me it’s fit of link with end user (obv avoiding spam sites, link wheels etc) – i want to be in front of right people
@danbarker : links still have an impact on ranking. Some sites still get away with doing it spammily. Google punishing more & more. #ecomchat
- @tristanbailey : I think as noted buy some testers the big branded companies and networks are penalised alot less Brand value by default
@danbarker : can anyone point to a recentish Ecommerce link building campaign/tactic example that they think is effective?
- @2PointNorth :Unsure on recency but I saw @firebox‘s “Crap Wrap” feature https://www.firebox.com/admin/crapwrap attracted lots of links/social sigs.
@2PointNorth : My #ecomchat view: Don’t do something if only purpose is links. It’s inefficient, unhelpful to your visitors and likely to earn a penalty.
- @JamesGurd : Yes if only purpose is links but IMO primary purpose can be links – why wouldn’t you want link from relevant webpages
- @dmandalia : It’s a dangerous game. even innocent looking links – site could be under penalty or have spammy in/c links etc
- @2PointNorth : Right but a link should be a metric, not the only goal. If link doesn’t send traffic as well, something’s gone wrong.
- @JamesGurd : Yes i’d agree with that, although sometimes a link can be in sensible place but not getting love.
- @JamesGurd : If it’s on high value domain/page and good place for your brand, is the link good or bad? I’d still say worth keeping
- @2PointNorth : Oh yes, I want the link. But the way I would get it would be by trying something to connect *people* with my site.
- @JamesGurd : Yes that’s a good way to approach it – think about the value proposition for end user + website owner
@KevinWaugh : #ecomchat: Things like affiliate marketing or forum links, while may have good intentions, get looked down by Search Engines.
- @JamesGurd : + lots of ‘old school’ links actually have nofollow anyway but the links can still be valuable if relevant to audience
- @KevinWaugh :Correct, I look at link value like this: traffic + rank, traffic no rank, no traffic + rank, no traffic no rank. #ecomchat
- @KevinWaugh : In order of most to least valuable. Key takeaway: Traffic matters #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd :That’s a useful way to split it out – value has more than 1 definition
- @tristanbailey : is that something you report on or research before linking ? Seems like something that would be a bit by hand checking
- @KevinWaugh : it can be tedious, but if I want links, I have to know who is linking me, since oversight could lead to down rank or penalty
@JamesGurd : IMO Google’s central message on the user/quality is right but the way they preach it is wrong – links for #SEO can be high quality
- @mcmillanstu : I’d agree with that James, like most SEO it’s good if done with good intentions and adding value for the audience
- @dmandalia : no matter how good the attention, might find yourself running link removals months down the line! proceed with care!
- @ReferralCandy : agreed. Throwing the baby out w/ bwtr. Perhaps they assume that the really quality stuff will always break through -v #ecomchat
@pferron : there is a lot of debate & confusion here from my perspective with recent announcements & the risk profile as increased but yes
- @JamesGurd : Hi mate – what primarily do you think the confusion is? People reacting to Google without thinking? Or something else?
- @pferron : #ecomchat guest post news is what created 4 builders it’s working out whats acceptable now plus in the future if G change mind
- @JamesGurd : I prefer to decide what’s best for website based on goals/target audience, then ensure not going to trigger Google ire
- @JamesGurd : rather than look at what Google wants/says and sculpt accordingly. I think Google often muddies waters. What’s your take?
- @dmandalia : if your site relies on G traffic then you really do need to think lot more about G’s ire… not just now but future…
- @pferron : #ecomchat can’t ignore google guidelines due to their dominance – links need to create legit traffic flow now not just robots
- @pferron :#ecomchat but YES they do muddy waters which creates panic and makes you unsure if a legit tactic will remain legit
- @JamesGurd : Yes i wouldn’t say ignore, just don’t let them dictate your strategy – avoid quality issues but think about your goals
@s17pur : I’d argue that pure link building for SEO is no longer worth the risk. Use content marketing to generate natural links.
- @JamesGurd : (6) Create link approach tailored to each site type – CM for content sites, simple links for simple directories/info pages
- @s17pur : agree, but when will such link building techniques be expired by Google? Retrospective penalties are now a big concern
- @s17pur : I think link building in its most basic form (asking for a link) will always be okay but beyond that is a risk.
- @JamesGurd : I think risk is poor targeting and simply getting a link for links sake, rather than a link that makes sense in context
- @s17pur: again I agree, but then a guest blog on a relevant site would not so long ago have been a decent, in-context link.
- @JamesGurd : Ah don’t get me started on the guest blog shambles!!!! That’s coming up in q3 🙂
@s17pur : I’d argue that pure link building for SEO is no longer worth the risk. Use content marketing to generate natural links.
- @JamesGurd : (6) Create link approach tailored to each site type – CM for content sites, simple links for simple directories/info pages
- @s17pur : agree, but when will such link building techniques be expired by Google? Retrospective penalties are now a big concern
- @KevinWaugh : It’s sad that most things can be shot down because of this valid concern. #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd : agreed – i think people put too much stock in Google’s verbatim – operate within key guidelines
- @KevinWaugh : But the key guidelines can be revised by Google with no rhyme or reason. Not saying that’s wrong though. #ecomchat
- @pferron: #ecomchat exactly so you have to think about your site and the risk of links for seo causing penalties
General Points:
@KevinWaugh : #ecomchat: Things like affiliate marketing or forum links, while may have good intentions, get looked down by Search Engines.
@JamesGurd : a1) So you tick the box for targeting + adding value to users but you’re doing it for SEO benefit primarily
@dmandalia : a1) in short yes. but for short-term gain as a sole tactic. must be part of a wider strategy (content, PR etc) #ecomchat
@KevinWaugh : #ecomchat A1) Yes, some links still carry ranking, but most high volume ones don’t. (Example, legit links from publications)
@pferron : guest post were both if the quality is there along with the “right” to discuss the topic and add expertise but it’s risky
@danbarker : General consensus on seems: “Links are effective in getting search traffic, but treat them as a side effect of good PR activity”
@pferron : links that have been built previously legitimately and within guidelines are now deemed inappropriate – so the future is unsure
@Beth_Bespoke : #ecomchat Linking for the sake of linking is a waste of time, linking when it can raise profile, get you refferal traffic etc is the aim
@DClutt : SEO is still very much alive, it’s just (finally) come round to real marketing rather than link spam
@JamesGurd : My approach (1) Set goals (traffic, sales, brand visibility etc) (2) Define target audience (3) Identify matching domains . (4) Review domains for quality/match with goals/audience (5) Segment based on site type (ecommerce, blog, content etc)
@JamesGurd : My view a1) Yes – as long as quality is high + do things transparently, having SEO as the primary goal isn’t in itself a bad thing
A1) So by that I mean SEO is the driver but outcome is relevant links on high quality domains where your link logically sits
Q2 – What are sensible linkbuilding techniques?
@danbarker : I think that’s a problem with Google’s constantly shifting advice. Business owners & ecommerce teams don’t know what is/is not ok. #ecomchat
- @lakey : Focus on producing top notch content, get the tech basics right, build an audience, and don’t worry about Google. #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd : I like the don’t worry about Google thing – just sense check to make sure no major violations that could bite
- @lakey : Totally agree. There are all kinds of hygiene factors to consider.
@danbarker : I think that’s a problem with Google’s constantly shifting advice. Business owners & ecommerce teams don’t know what is/is not ok. #ecomchat
- @AnishaDattani : Agree, Google are constantly moving the ball post but if in doubt, always best to go for the human “natural” approach
@AndrewGirdwood : Link tip for ecommerce – take part in #ecomchat, get noticed by a community with the ability to link and share 🙂
- @KevinWaugh : Take it a step further, find groups on Twitter talking about products you sell, and engage. #ecomchat
- @AndrewGirdwood :Yes!
@Armitology : #ecomchat We were on the DM homepage on Friday (bad PR), have asked them for a link !!! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2559364/Foreign-workers-banned-speaking-language-told-speak-English-face-sack.html …
- @Beth_Bespoke : Brilliant! Haha – I’d have probably done the same.. why not!
- @mattuk : That should work. They happily added one for us recently when requested
- @jondarch : definitely worth a link! 1300 comments too – crikey
- @screamingfrog : it will be nofollow if they do.
@danbarker : Question: Your friend says “Paul Dacre’s my uncle. Shall I get you a link on the Daily Mail homepage” – what is correct response?
- @MartinBelam : will I have to flaunt my curves to get it?
- @danbarker : slow news week – simply skipping around a puddle is enough this time.
- @JamesGurd : I’d get myself to a tanning salon, then get some implants, then pump myself up with misguided vitriol…
@danbarker : Summary: Nobody wants to answer whether sensible to agree to the Daily Mail homepage linking to you. My advice: take the link 😉 #ecomchat
- @2PointNorth : Sorry, sensible answer is yes, take it. Traffic great. Whether they (no)follow it or not is their problem.
@AndrewGirdwood : Think like a publisher! Build your site, yes your ecom site, with publishing in mind.
- @pferron : if you can some regulations prohibit this though #ecomchat
- @AndrewGirdwood : Yes, annoyingly – but post launch announcements can still happen.
- @pferron : agreed it’s not impossible requires lateral thinking #ecomchat
@pferron : ensure all content is now linked to a legit google plus profile that is active and traceable and open to questions
- @JamesGurd : And also avoid obsessive optimisation of anchor text – another odd Google obsession IMO
- @pferron : yes agree it’s was all accuracy at 1 point but now they have their semantic recognition they penalise U 4 helping them #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd : It’s bug bear of mine – best for end user is the most context specific text for the link for clear journey
- @pferron : yes it’s another reason to look towards bing!! Lol
@mocwoods : Q2 #ecomchat Forget of it as link building for SEO and do link building geared toward sales and customer reach.
- @KevinWaugh : This, I think with most SEOs, they forfeit traffic since it may not have rank. Traffic brings visitors, rankings may. #ecomchat
- @mocwoods : I honestly think it’s because most SEOs aren’t focused toward the business aims and objectives as they’ve been siloed
- @KevinWaugh : Siloed is the same, if the entire company was cognizant of link-building’s effect, they would contribute and help. #ecomchat
- @mocwoods : If you work as a hand-to-mouth SEO for a crap client that has always been a problem. Focus on getting better clients
- @KevinWaugh : Fire crap clients, I will always be for that 🙂 #ecomchat
- @mocwoods : Crap clients are the worst thing about the job 🙂 That’s why I always treat good clients like gold.
- @MontseCano : It also depends on company structure. SEOs can be led by people who have heard of it, but who don’t know.
- @mocwoods : As with most things in life, education is the key. And like real life, some people unfortunately can not be helped
- @Tony_DWM : You, my friend, are on fire.. @MontseCano @KevinWaugh
- @mocwoods : that’s a new one, haha.
@danbarker : RT @EcomChat Q2: What are Sensible Linkbuilding Techniques?
- @SEOsherlock : Techniques that prioritise target audience, content and context before any ‘link building’.
- @JamesGurd : I think context is key and often overlooked – what link works best in each context & where should it link?
@2PointNorth : My #ecomchat view: Don’t do something if only purpose is links. It’s inefficient, unhelpful to your visitors and likely to earn a penalty.
- @MontseCano : Don’t do anything at all just to fish for links or followers. This applies to Pinterest too.
@danbarker : RT @EcomChat Q2: What are Sensible Linkbuilding Techniques?
- @dkoblintz : many sites will block internal search query pages from indexing for crawl reason.. but these get linked to.
- @danbarker : and – oddly – google themselves recommend nofollowing piles of them.
- @dkoblintz : can make sense for crawl reasons. If people are linking to search pages? those could have been fixed pages instead. Linkbuilding!
@ecomchat : Wowser time is flying on so let’s nail q2) What are sensible techniques? cc @danbarker
- @mattbeks : bit of text with a bit of media video, photos any other intereactive elements. Good UX, But no infographics!!!
- @JamesGurd :Ah yes the infographic issue – i still find the SEER case study of that fascinating – punishing good content
@Eoin_Kenneally : Has everyone seen the impact on music magpie from their recent punishment by Google #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd : Not read anything more on it – what was the outcome?
- @Eoin_Kenneally : same as the other people who get quashed by Google, however it seems to be taking ages for them to disavow links.
- @Eoin_Kenneally :Looking at not just the brand but the non brand terms being penalized, I wonder if they can bounce back from this as a business.
@ACChaudre : As Google is a link-based search engine, link building/earning is still essential for #seo
@dmandalia : True but whisper that to Google, they’d like us not to think like this….
@dkoblintz : Yandex, on the other hand, disagrees: https://www.russiansearchtips.com/2014/02/update-yandex-tells-when-seo-links-will-be-dead/ …
@dmandalia : Interesting but Yandex still some way off perfecting it and who knows if G will take the same route.
@dkoblintz : well, Yandex seem to feel like they’re a month or so away, so… yeah. It’ll be interesting, if nothing else.
General Points:
@AndrewGirdwood : Learn how to pitch editorial ideas to bloggers. Show them why they should care. DON’T try and smuggle advertorials.
@Armitology : #ecomchat Tracking brand mentions then asking for a link where it’s been omitted.
@dmandalia : A2) If you’ve not already seen it, this is a fantastic link building/earning list: https://pointblankseo.com/link-building-strategies …
@geake : Simply creating content that people *want* to read and share. “Lads groups” on Facebook work amazingly well for this.
@AndrewGirdwood : So, sensible techniques? Engage with audiences. Give them a reason to care/share/talk about you and your assets
@2PointNorth : Sensible techniques: awesome content; optimise your marketing to also deliver links; network with influencers and help them out.
@AndrewGirdwood : If you built the link you probably won’t like the effect it has should it ever count!
@KevinWaugh : #ecomchat A2) Good old requests never hurt from sites that are adjacent. (Vendors, partners, etc). #ecomchat
@SEOsherlock : Techniques that prioritise target audience, content and context before any ‘link building’.
@JamesGurd : I think context is key and often overlooked – what link works best in each context & where should it link?
@AndrewGirdwood : Learn how to craft actual editorial oppertunities for publishers. No, your infographic or clever map isn’t much of an oppertunity
@AndrewGirdwood :To answer q2 you must view #seo as a skill and a service not as a product and a process. #ecomchat
@Eoin_Kenneally : #ecomchat Creating content which is of interest to the wider media, and also adapting it to your communication channels, not adding a link..
@AndrewGirdwood : Try and control your own news. Releasing a new smartphone? Be the source that people link to.
@AndrewGirdwood : It’ll get old as a “technique” but I still like easter eggs. Hard not to link to the site to talk about them.
@dmandalia : Having an opinion helps. Even if you’re not the first to break the latest news. Go against the grain. Controversy helps! #ecomchat
@mocwoods : Q2 #ecomchat Forget of it as link building for SEO and do link building geared toward sales and customer reach.
@AndrewGirdwood : Maintain relationships with bloggers. An big agency advantage? Relationships with a wide range of publishers.
@beyondcontent : Where SEOs say “produce top notch content”, many businesses only see cost with no accurate ROI projection.
@AndrewGirdwood : Don’t chase the algorithm. Have a view on what Google is trying to do and use that to get ahead of the chasing brigade.
Q3 – How should we respond to Google’s latest thoughts on guest blogging?
@mocwoods : Would I turn down a guest post that would let me reach new audiences just because of Google… Hell no! It’s not all about Google
- @JamesGurd : I know for a fact that it’s links in guest blog on @Econsultancy and @SmartInsights that have driven my own SEO visibility
- @lakey : Links in the article itself, or the byline? #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd : In the author bio – i’ve never put links to my site within an article as my site is about promoting services not content
- @lakey : Good stuff! The bad news is that we may be rolling out ‘no_follow’ for bios. Seems like a pity. We have high standards. #ecomchat
- @lakey : Also worth pointing out that we don’t allow sexy anchor text in bios, just company names, etc. That *should* be ok. #ecomchat
- @danbarker : I don’t think I even have one in the byline. #whiterthanwhiterthanwhite
- @dmandalia : Is that a nofollow just for James’ bio? 😉
- @lakey : Really? To me, it seems perfectly reasonable to point people at author’s websites, social, etc. We link to Google+!
- @lakey : Ha! No, it will be across the board. Bigger changes afoot on the blog… will occur thereafter.
- @danbarker : I think the big man might have hoisted the link down after I made a disparaging comment about John Nettles. @JamesGurd
- @dmandalia : was kidding of course. perhaps follow’d links are earned through x number of posts and comments algo?
- @lakey : YOU ACTUALLY SLAGGED OFF BERGERAC?
- @JamesGurd : Really? To nofollow i think isn’t great for the authors – if readers click links, that should be fair signal of quality
- @JamesGurd : I guess it’s a hard balancing act for @Econsultancy to ensure it protects its own SEO as well as keeping authors happy
- @lakey : Depends on the intent. Writing for profile, traffic, thought leadership is one thing. Writing for linkjuice is another.
- @lakey : We’ve always been happy to link here there and everywhere, but if it is likely to harm us we’ll need to rethink.
- @lakey : Yup. Guest bloggers that have only done one post and then vanished are likely to have posts removed. Hygiene!
- @JamesGurd : Agreed but i think Google is trying to throw out the baby with the bathwater here. Your editorial control prevents spam
- @JamesGurd : Nobody, i repeat nobody, takes down Bergerac online….
- @JamesGurd : As long as you keep the 65 untargeted links in my bio that’s fine mate:)
- @AndrewGirdwood : A link has two sides, though. The other end of the link can push Google’s trust bar down super low .
@JamesGurd : RT @mocwoods: look up the definition of a guest posts. The problem isn’t the theory of them, but the abuse for links. Agreed.
- @mocwoods : Guest post/invites/meetups etc… should be one of the strongest ways to build an audience.
@AndrewGirdwood : Q3 It really is time to decide whether you/agency are still trying to trick Google or work with the system. Pick one. No halves.
- @Tony_DWM: I doubt whether many SEO’s / agencies actually know that both options exist or differences.. @ecomchat
- @AndrewGirdwood : I hope that’s not the case.
- @Tony_DWM : In my exp, many SEOs / agencies don’t know their elbows from their backsides. Doing it right vs cust ‘demands’. Easy/lazy..
- @Steve_Caple : I would say agencies that want credibility will work with the system. Working multi channel to enhance results.
- @AndrewGirdwood : I think it all depends on what you pay them to know/do. Agencies charged with #1 positions (silly) have no other concerns, etc.
- @AndrewGirdwood : Credibility is something that needs to be earned.
- @Tony_DWM : Agree. However, many SEO asshats focus on the quick & easy. Those unable to address cust demands & expectations
- @AndrewGirdwood : That’s just bad SEO. I know pleny of good SEOs. Perhaps I’m lucky!
- @Tony_DWM : Agree. Also depends on what clients think they ‘know’ and the degree that they’re willing to be patient (pre-qualifying..)
- @Tony_DWM : So do I 🙂 But more and more stories of clients being ripped off by those who’d be better selling flowers..
- @Steve_Caple : when comes to service IMO the type of SEO is where the client gets best Value add. SEO with tech skills is best!
- @AndrewGirdwood :This debate always grabs me. I’ve come from that expert background now part of the integrated/blended agency solution
- @Tony_DWM : Add ‘relationship skills’ and ’emotional intelligence’ and you’ve found yourself a true SEO pro 😉
- @AndrewGirdwood : If you’re looking for an single individual then they’d need creative and production skills too.
- @Steve_Caple : Sure thing, so it’s white hat all the way… Why risk a google sandboxing episode sending your cred down the drain
- @Tony_DWM : Yep. And a strong foundation of marketing & business sense
- @Tony_DWM : Relating to business cred, doing the right think means not looking over your back 24/7. Offline to online 😉
- @Steve_Caple : Too true. especially in an agency when don’t want to rely on multiple personnel availability to deliver campaigns
@KevinWaugh : #ecomchat A3) Guest blogs may not pass rank, but like before, they can pass traffic. What is wrong with that if you follow the rules?
- @JamesGurd : Exactly. Rank is a side-effect of good guest blogging, the primary benefit is reaching the right audience
@mocwoods : Q3 – People should look up the definition of a guest posts. The problem isn’t the theory of them, but the abuse for links.
- @pferron :#ecomchat agree what is a guest post lots discussed at the time as some content site are all “guest” as not paid employees
@beyondcontent : Where SEOs say “produce top notch content”, many businesses only see cost with no accurate ROI projection.
- @dmandalia : what is top notch anyway? part of the problem is understanding the goal. ie not ‘create infographic’ but engage
General Points:
@AndrewGirdwood : Q3 Teams should – at the very least – respond. Don’t stick your head in the sand and ignore it. Don’t call it mind games.
@pferron : #Ecomchat forming the long term view is crucial need to adopt the approach of venture capitalist and investment funds in your seo tactics
@JamesGurd : A3) Don’t over-react, read b/n lines – guest blogging is still really valuable if done in a good way – again quality not qty
@AndrewGirdwood : Q3 It really is time to decide whether you/agency are still trying to trick Google or work with the system. Pick one. No halves.
@DClutt : Fix dupe content issues (especially Magento), produce top class content campaigns and distribute links well #ecomchat
@s17pur : like this: https://25.media.tumblr.com/be94f4a47f15780936fffca80420ee98/tumblr_mg9zoibpqX1rso9d7o1_400.gif …. but seriously, look at your existing link profile and ask to remove any you fear are spammy. Don’t wait for a penalty.
@Armitology : Q3. As with all other tactics, focus only on quality. #ecomchat
@dmandalia : G’s cracking down on poor quality guest posting. Doesn’t mean stop doing it. Quality site + quality content = win?
@matt_davies : Q3: You know when a guest blog is “real” and when you’ve done it just to get a link. Listen to that voice you’ve learned to ignore
@JamesGurd : I focus on what i think is useful/interesting content for a targeted audience but i did it also for links and #SEO + it worked
@Tony_DWM : This too > “@mocwoods: ..most SEOs aren’t focused toward the business aims and objectives as they’ve been siloed ” (Nailed..)
@AndrewGirdwood : As for guest posts – you can still guest post without links. Right. Build buzz around a product term you rank for. More searches.
@JamesGurd : a3) If your blog fits on a site, adds value to readers etc then having link back to relevant page on your site is relevant
Thanks very much to @JackSaville1 for the excellent writeup.
Join us at 1pm UK time on Monday, and do share this post either on Twitter or via email with anyone you think would be interested.
Dan & James.
p.s. If you’re wondering “what is this all about?” there is an about page to explain everything.
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