Ecommerce Payments & Currencies
Here is the summary of the very busy #EcomChat session on “Ecommerce Payments & Currencies“.
As ever, there were 3 conversation starter questions, and anyone was welcome to chip in live on Twitter using the #EcomChat hashtag. Here were the questions:
- What are the big trends in payments Ecommerce sites should pay attention to?
- Virtual currencies: should ecommerce take note?
- How do you evaluate the business case for new payment methods?
The session was very busy, with lots of excellent contributions from ecommerce directors, managers, practitioners, consultants and many more.
You can download the full summary as a PDF or read the full summary below, both expertly put together by @JackSaville1:
PDF Download: EcomChat – Payments and Currencies – Summary By Jack Saville
The full summary is also below:
Q1 – What are the big trends in payments Ecommerce sites should pay attention to?
@AndrewGirdwood : I’m disappointed Google stepped back a little from payments. Could have been nice.
- @JamesGurd : Visa, Mastercard, PayPal yes. But i’m not convinced people see Google as a payment company in the trad sense #EcomChat
- @hwjgage : Perhaps creating payment gateway via Google Play or iTunes is next step. Easy for mobile payments.
- @AndrewGirdwood : Google knows ID – via Google+. With ID surely comes a lot of useful knowledge for payments #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd : Apple has 2 open patent applications for mobile payment, wouldn’t be surprised to see iTunes used #EcomChat
- @AndrewGirdwood : That’ll add to the “tunes” problem iTunes has in branding. #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd : simple rebrand to iPay (they can have that for free!) #EcomChat
- @AndrewGirdwood : I pay, you pay, we all pay! #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd : shit we could pitch this to Apple you know, probably cost them £m through an agency:) #EcomChat
@AndrewGirdwood : I’m disappointed Google stepped back a little from payments. Could have been nice. #ecomchat
- @danbarker : I was really surprised – they must take tons through Play Store – odd to close off rather than open up further. #ecomchat
- @AndrewGirdwood : In-app payment is great in Android. Comixology is addictive. It surprised me too. #ecomchat
@danbarker : MT @welshmike I’ve seen it on travel sites, train / airline tickets, who also charge for credit vs debit cards #ecomchat
- @hwjgage : I was presented with this choice just recently. Immediately opted for debit card. #EcomChat can’t remember which site
- @JamesGurd : Yep being charged extra for credit card often makes me exit the site, esp on large transaction #EcomChat
- @walkerama : Anyone ever measured the impact of these charges on conv rate? Would be interesting…
@AndrewGirdwood : Do we think there will be a future in sites that charge automatically via mobile network costs? #ecomchat
- @emmabonar : Do you think there’s a security concern for larger payments? #ecomchat
- @AndrewGirdwood :Very hard to predict what the public will make of that. #ecomchat
- @emmabonar : Depends whether the media decide to stir up some hysteria about it… #ecomchat
- @MontseCano : If there’s a security concern for large payments, that’ll prob apply to all payments. #ecomchat
- @emmabonar : Fair point. I wonder why I’m comfortable using it for a small charity donation, but not a sofa #weird #ecomchat
- @MontseCano : I do think twice too. I reckon it’s psychological – a barrier for e-tailers #EcomChat
@AndrewGirdwood : Do we think there will be a future in sites that charge automagically via mobile network costs? #ecomchat
- @RichardFergie : yes. For kids mobile credit is sometimes the only fungible asset they have
- @AndrewGirdwood : Yup. Easier to get a smartphone than a debit card. #ecomchat
- @AmpersandHQ : Mobile payments are essential in markets like Africa where only 10% of the pop have bank accounts. #ecomchat
- @RichardFergie : and possibly unaware parents willing to fund it without realising it can be spent on something other than calls/texts
@AndrewGirdwood : Do people know about the “middle men” of payment? Not the cart vender or bank. Companies like Datacash that manage connections #ecomchat
- @emmabonar : I’ve dealt with Ogone #ecomchat
- @AndrewGirdwood : I’ll need to go snoop around them! #ecomchat
- @emmabonar : Also Adyen (who were great but had problems with mobile implementation), more snooping 🙂 #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd : assuming you mean the standard PSPs inc Secure Trading, CyberSource etc. New peeps like Stripe #EcomChat
@welshmike : As we’re talking international payment methods, is the method more important than the currency, or are both needed? #ecomchat
- @dkoblintz : as with everything, depends on the local market #ecomchat
- @emmabonar : Local market should be local currency, Denmark/Sweden are rare exceptions #ecomchat
- @dkoblintz : many countries happy to pay in $, JP happy to pay in whatever currency has most favourable price #ecommchat
@danbarker : MT @niamhjean Have started to see companies charge for using paypal! #ecomchat
- @YodasMyDad : all providers charge, not just paypal. So charging customers is nuts, it’s up to the store owner to negotiate rate
- @danbarker : I remember about 15 years ago working in a US shop where we added 5% for amex payments in-store! #ecomchat
- @emmabonar: Cheeky! That’s a very budget airlines approach to retail! #ecomchat
- @danbarker : agreed. oddly it’s quite common in retail shops in the uk to have minimums on stuff like that #ecomchat
- @danbarker : ’50p charge for card transactions under £5′, ‘no cashback on purchases under £10’, etc. #ecomchat
- @emmabonar : Whereas here in Amsterdam everyone uses cards, even for 50 cent payments
- @DanielJAustin : tends to be smaller indies but it’s very common #ecomchat
- @MontseCano : Amex seems to have a lot of problems in general #ecomchat
- @MontseCano : Or present a lot of them to customers #EcomChat
- @YodasMyDad : problem is, most people use Amazon, Play etc.. No extra charge, so wouldn’t expect it
@danbarker : I think this will do very well – PayPal payments without leaving your site #ecomchat: pic.twitter.com/D7uPNhWdXf
- @panda_doodle: that will fall back to building greater trust online with the store first than trusting a “pop up”
- @s1m0nc : I’d contemplate recommending paypal with that approach. The UI / process on their current approach is ‘orrible! #ecomchat
@ianhasajob : Europe is very different to the UK & US. Only providing CC payments doesn’t work in Europe (esp. Germany) #EcomChat
- @danbarker : very true. I’ve worked with a few sites that have lots of ‘Überweisung’ customers. #ecomchat
- @ianhasajob :Also, Germans won’t purchase if you don’t have exactly the payment method they prefer. Lack of trust in online payments #ecomchat
- @eCommera : Yes, Germany is one of many very interesting markets with individual payment needs #ecomchat
- @ianhasajob : from my research, you also have to consider PayPal as they hold a 25% market share in Germany. Hurts though #ecomchat
- @emmabonar : Yup PayPal is important in Germany, but still tiny compared to post payment – it’s a catalogue market #ecomchat
- @ianhasajob : True, sorry my figures are based on direct online payments. One off direct bank transfer is also popular. #ecomchat
@AndrewGirdwood : And Flattr seems to still be a sleeping giant. Just need a big backer? Flattr on Wikipedia? #ecomchat
- @AndrewGirdwood : I think we’ll see more from Etsy, Redbubble and others – that provide a market platform and payment solution for creators. #ecomchat
@eCommera : A1: International retail – this is driving the change for UK retailers #ecomchat
- @geake : I’m about to stop international retail tbh.
- @eCommera : interesting, why is that? #ecomchat
- @geake : the buyers and the fuss. They moan about the cost, the delays etc. Worst part is their local delivery is out of our hands.
- @eCommera : yes delivery on promise & confidence in local fulfilment is key for international success so doesn’t impact brand #ecomchat
- @geake : that’s just it. I’ve had an order take 8 months to get to Thailand and all the crap fell on us rather than their couriers!
@hwjgage : A1 Interest Free Credit appears very popular for high ticket items. Any site with AOV > £300 should be considering it.
- @danbarker : very true. done some little bits with a couple of sites that have very complicated finance paths with v low drop off! #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd : yep some of the high end watch retailers do well from credit purchases #EcomChat
@danbarker : I’ve always been surprised they haven’t launched iTunes for web payments. Makes lots of sense. #ecomchat
- @danbarker : I also noticed Apple are talking about launching “iTunes In-Store”: https://www.mobile-ent.biz/payments/commerce/apple-could-rival-paypal-with-possible-mobile-payments-service/042810 … #ecomchat
@AndrewGirdwood : It’s not a new trend but there’s still a real drive to get the cost of payment process down. #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd : Yep which is why PayPal puts some retailers off still as transaction fees so high #EcomChat
- @KevinWaugh : Paypal also always sides with consumer in dispute, sometimes ignoring mountains of evidence to differ #ecomchat
- @AndrewGirdwood : PayPal will never win the PR battle when it comes to disputes. Damned if they do. Damned if they don’t. #ecomchat
- @panda_doodle : #ecomchat issue with Paypal they side with the buyer, OR if you purchase via ebay you need to wait
- @KevinWaugh : Agreed, they have more consumers than they do businesses, so they play the numbers there.
@aattias : question for international etailers – how easy is fraud combatting compared to UK payments? #ecomchat
- @emmabonar :Depends on the market. For post payment I saw big problems with fraud in the Netherlands, almost none in Germany #ecomchat
- @MontseCano : Does that mean that they have better systems than everyone else? #ecomchat
- @emmabonar : No, I think they’re more honest! #ecomchat
@KevinWaugh : #ecomchat A1: Bitcoin obviously, but I notice for high dollar items, leasing or financing is a growing thing.
- @JamesGurd : Can Bitcoin really take off in retail? Isn’t the instability of virtual currencies a big turn-off for retailers? #EcomChat
- @KevinWaugh : I think with places like @overstock accepting, they are going through the growing pains. #ecomchat
- @aattias : Plus the technical complexity associated with dealing in Bitcoins surely? #ecomchat
- @AmpersandHQ : W/o regulatory clarity from gov customers may not want 2 part with their bitcoins in ex for goods. We will see #ecomchat
@AndrewGirdwood : A1. #ecomchat The big trend is mobile. The big buzz is virtual. The elephant in room is privacy.
- @JamesGurd : Where the big boys go with regards to NFC / BLE will be interesting for wallets as will impact of HCE #EcomChat
- @AndrewGirdwood : Yes, interesting space – just not sure we’ll see much movement on it in 2014 #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd : + Android now supports HCE in KitKat, so more handsets will be able to support NFC payment #EcomChat
@welshmike : #EcomChat International Payement methods – Who knew that cash on delivery, or pay by invoice could be a large % of european sales
- @emmabonar : Me! Post-payment is around 70% of orders in NL #ecomchat
- @danbarker : and amazing how much it impacts things like returns too. #ecomchat
- @MontseCano : Do you mean that returns decrease or increase? #ecomchat
- @danbarker : in my experience, returns are higher for cash on delivery. #ecomchat
@welshmike : International Payement methods – Who knew that cash on delivery, or pay by invoice could be a large % of european sales
- @AmpersandHQ : It’s true even in the UK 11% of consumers want to use “alternative” methods. #ecomchat
- @welshmike : does that include PayPal as an “alternative” method?
- @AmpersandHQ :Yes, believe so. Here are the stats on @eConsultancy: https://econsultancy.com/blog/9818-alternative-payments-used-in-11-of-online-purchases-in-the-uk … #ecomchat
- @Econsultancy : Yes Paypal included – smaller % growth given base size but still important.
@emmabonar :Carrier billing is becoming a big deal in some European markets, and post payment continues to dominate in the Benelux #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd : Hi Emma – isn’t carrier billing better suited to low level repeat purchases? i..e wouldn’t tag a sofa onto mob bill #EcomChat
- @emmabonar : Sorry – read ‘courier’ – pay on delivery. Always been massive in Russia #ecomchat
- @hwjgage : Like £3 charity donations….
General Points
@eCommera : There’s been a recent trend of retailers pursuing multiple PSPs to ensure excellent service in all markets #ecomchat
@eCommera :: As UK retailers go international in ecommerce, they need to find additional payment providers #ecomchat
@KevinWaugh : If consumer demand grows for it in the retail space (especially online) then some merchants will have to adopt
Q2 – Virtual currencies: should ecommerce take note?
@walkerama : A2) Right now not worth it for most, only good reason to accept Bitcoin now is PR. With no regulator much too volatile #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd : Thanks Nick – do you think key concern for web owners is price volatility and potential fraud in unregulated market? #EcomChat
- @walkerama : I think Bitcoin is still a novelty, mainly traded for speculation atm. You gain little (other than PR) by accepting it #ecomchat
@danbarker : Silly example – Tiger Direct announced they’re taking bitcoin the other day. Look at the number here #ecomchat: pic.twitter.com/16JrcgSAc9
- @hwjgage : https://goo.gl/HRZJr #EcomChat
- @hwjgage : I don’t get paid in Bitcoin so wouldn’t want to risk on the exchange rate just to buy using it #EcomChat https://goo.gl/NRC4EH
@danbarker : Not many mentions of fraud so far on #ecomchat. @trustev is interesting – using ‘social signals’ to reduce fraud. Anything else like that?
- @s1m0nc : Certainly think fraud side needs a kick up the ***. Seems very manual in my exp with sagepay atm anyway. #ecomchat
- @aattias : Agree & from what I’ve seen, fraudsters becoming increasingly savvy & sophisticated too #ecomchat
- @hwjgage : We don’t know the half of it. I know somebody who works in fraud. She has scary stories to tell. #EcomChat
- @aattias : What irks me is the lack of help you get to tackle the problem. Auths have other priorities #ecomchat
- @s1m0nc : Looked at fraud recently. Painful. Nothing automated / straightfwd that doesn’t cost arm/leg #ecomchat
@danbarker : I think virtual currencies is one of those ‘keep an eye on’ things. Very easy PR at the moment if you take bitcoin. #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd : Yep agreed – not enough people are buying and using virtual to give it mass appeal to retailers. Def one to watch… #EcomChat
- @GingerWarriorX : It cannot reach mass adoption whilst it has no base value – you can buy an ipad with it one day and a pencil the next
@walkerama : A2) Right now not worth it for most, only good reason to accept Bitcoin now is PR. With no regulator much too volatile #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd : Thanks Nick – do you think key concern for web owners is price volatility and potential fraud in unregulated market? #EcomChat
- @walkerama : I think Bitcoin is still a novelty, mainly traded for speculation atm. You gain little (other than PR) by accepting it #ecomchat
@KevinWaugh : A2: Yes, though like others have said, all risks must be considered.
- @MontseCano : Including the fact that most don’t know how to use them. #EcomChat
- @KevinWaugh : Agreed, that is why even though virtual currency is hot in the press, it still for most risky at this point. #ecomchat
@AmpersandHQ : Catch 22: #Cryptocurrencies will stabilise if adoption rises. Major retailers reluctant to adopt due to volatility. #ecomchat
- @JamesGurd : Do you think stability inevitably means being regulated? Or does reg then compromise what #Cryptocurrencies do? #EcomChat
- @AmpersandHQ : The latter. Clarity from governments is what is needed. Not regulation. #EcomChat
- @AmpersandHQ :Also in the meantime if a retailer decides to accept #bitcoin, an immediate exchange partner will be essential #EcomChat
- @hwjgage : exactly, and one that doesn’t mean customer pays more. No better than paying £1 for using a credit card…. #EcomChat
@KevinWaugh : A2: Yes, though like others have said, all risks must be considered.
- @MontseCano : Including the fact that most don’t know how to use them. #EcomChat
- @KevinWaugh : Agreed, that is why even though virtual currency is hot in the press, it still for most risky at this point. #ecomchat
General Points
@AndrewGirdwood : I’m not saying it has to be Bitcoin. I’m saying we’ll know what -the- virtual currency is by the time Bitcoin is done. #ecomchat
@danbarker : I think virtual currencies is one of those ‘keep an eye on’ things. Very easy PR at the moment if you take bitcoin. #ecomchat
@s1m0nc : A2 there’s a tipping point perhaps, but right now can’t see many adopting it before users do. Therefore Egg / Chicken. #ecomchat
@AndrewGirdwood : I think it’s all or nothing with #cryptocurrencies. Either Bitcoin shows it can work or it becomes another Second Life. #ecomchat
@s17pur : good opportunity for someone to get publicity for being an early adopter, but still a considerable risk at this time. #EcomChat
@JamesGurd : I’m just gutted Coinye West had to drop the ‘West’ bit because Kanye wasn’t too pleased… #Cryptocurrencies #EcomChat
@welshmike : We’re all behind the times when it comes to bitcoin – @burgerbeartom has taken it for a bit now https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-food-stall-sells-burgers-for-00131-bitcoins-750-to-you-and-me-8997443.html …
Q3 – How do you evaluate the business case for new payment methods?
@eCommera : A3: Cost of integration vs uplift. Costs inc; PSP integr, transaction fees & dev/content changes #ecomchat
@danbarker : On Q3, I think the key thing was also a theme of Q1: Different payment methods v important for international. Test for the rest. #ecomchat
@s1m0nc : Q3) Can see the arguments for diff methods for retailers selling 99p items etc or to minors who can’t get visa cards etc #ecomchat
@s1m0nc : Q3) for “normal” orders / order values don’t think users care as long as can use their card. ctd… #ecomchat
@KevinWaugh : A3: Accept what your finance experts say you should. Leverage them to be SME on payment methods. They will deal the the headaches.
@AndrewGirdwood : #ecomchat Retailer should make buying easy – too many methods can complicate. A/B test and know your data!
And with that, the time was up. Thanks very, very much to all contributors, and to @JackSaville1 for the writeup.
Join us at 1pm UK time on Monday for the next #EcomChat, and do share this post either on Twitter or via email with anyone you think would be interested.
Dan & James.
p.s. If you’re wondering “what is this all about?” there is an about page to explain everything.
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